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Post by LKeet6 on Sept 2, 2019 15:48:45 GMT
yep, a genuine anti-capitalist dynamic to this all just always seems out of reach; which is SO frustrating, because that is the REAL "anti-establishment" that people want, but they've been brainwashed into thinking capitalism is good, and that Labour are run by "far" left loonies who cosy up to terorists and are anti-semites (look to the other side of the benches for that one!)
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Brexshit
Sept 2, 2019 17:34:37 GMT
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 2, 2019 17:34:37 GMT
If anything, the brexit party are more of a threat to the tories rather than Labour from what we have seen so far, though I do expect them to be making big strides in the next GE in Labour constituencies as they are essentially UKIP - reborn. I have absolutely no idea why the Lib Dems would make any significant gains apart from maybe Cleggs old seat due to the former Labour candidate, O'mara disgracing himself. Scotland looks to be heading back towards a huge majority for SNP which is a good thing for Labour. I agree that we will probably be back to square one, no majority government propped up on one side or the other, only this time it could end up being Lab/SNP coalition, hopefully we'll have enough numbers to stick two fingers up to Swinson and her austerity enabling cabal.
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Post by LKeet6 on Sept 3, 2019 7:35:07 GMT
The tories essentially ARE the brexit party now. So will be interesting to see how the debate and vote between them goes.
The lib dems are 100% remain, which neither tories or labour are; that's a huge selling point for them. They are also selling themselves as the middle ground, in the context of labour and the tories both being "extreme." I think they will make big/huge gains...
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 3, 2019 8:15:38 GMT
I know that a fresh GE would be portrayed as a Brexit election but I'll never underestimate the influence of domestic policy, especially in a time of harsh austerity. If there is one group that you could really count on to vote purely on brexit alone it's FBPE crowd, not the brexiteers. I come to this conclusion after three years of seeing even the most militant of brexiteers still in support of scrapping austerity, nationalisation and fighting back against neoliberalism. The FBPE on the other hand are saying that austerity was a sensible choice and has improved Britains finances, nationalisation is unaffordable and Stalinist, and neoliberalism is essential as it keeps investment in Britain. No doubt there are many, many Thatcherite brexiteers who also align with these views, but those who are supporting the Brexit Party seem to be much more in tune with the effects of the current government over the decade. I still believe a lot of these voters will stick with Labour after an unbiased and informative GE campaign from Labour. Impartiality rules will kick in and past voting records are going to damage all those who possess them, especially Jo Swinson and Johnson, a man who has already seen his share of the vote plummet in his constituency.
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Brexshit
Sept 4, 2019 8:38:23 GMT
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 4, 2019 8:38:23 GMT
It's a cert that they'll one day make a film about all of this... So many twists and turns but how will it end?
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Post by paulus on Sept 4, 2019 9:39:20 GMT
Did you see the BBC drama about the first referendum Joe? With Lick My Cumbersnatch playing Dominic Cummins.... www.imdb.com/title/tt8425058/... was a pretty decent stab at highlighting the inner machinations of these Machiavellian figures. |
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ray
Politico
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Brexshit
Sept 4, 2019 10:00:04 GMT
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Post by ray on Sept 4, 2019 10:00:04 GMT
I look forward to the movie. I’ve never really taken much of an interest in English politics so don’t really understand what’s going on. At least it gives people a safe space where I’m not going to sally forth lol.
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Post by jacko on Sept 4, 2019 12:19:28 GMT
Johnson is being exposed as the clown he is over the last couple of days. And his behaviour has united the opposition in quite a remarkable way.
Labour have laid a pretty clever trap. Johnson can have an election but only if he agrees to extend the deadline to avoid no deal. If he does that it will harm his chances in that subsequent election with the right wing ultras peeling off to the Brexit Party.
You need 2/3 of MP's to get an election so they could theoretically leave him there and say "you insist you can get a deal - go and do it". Even when it's clear he's not even trying to.
Either way he looks like a total berk.
And credit where it's due, Corbyn looks positively statesmanlike in comparison to the lies & bluster coming from Boris. He has no answer to any of the key questions Corbyn just asked at PMQ's - just vacuous slogans |
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 5, 2019 15:16:46 GMT
Just like in the run up to the 2017 GE I'm seeing a lot of centrists now hailing Corbyn as "statesman" and other positive things. Unfortunately this is ONLY because he's putting up a good fight against the no deal scenario. Although I'm happy to see Corbyn gaining mass support from previously hostile people, it exposes how shallow these people are because they have relentlessly attacked him for talking more about austerity than brexit over the past three years. They're litteraly like spoilt children.
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Brexshit
Sept 5, 2019 15:24:36 GMT
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Post by LKeet6 on Sept 5, 2019 15:24:36 GMT
Just like in the run up to the 2017 GE I'm seeing a lot of centrists now hailing Corbyn as "statesman" and other positive things. Unfortunately this is ONLY because he's putting up a good fight against the no deal scenario. Although I'm happy to see Corbyn gaining mass support from previously hostile people, it exposes how shallow these people are because they have relentlessly attacked him for talking more about austerity than brexit over the past three years. They're litteraly like spoilt children. Where have you seen this Joe? I'm just seeing stuff like either Johnson is bad, or Corbyn is a coward for not wanting an election... |
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 5, 2019 15:38:20 GMT
Just like in the run up to the 2017 GE I'm seeing a lot of centrists now hailing Corbyn as "statesman" and other positive things. Unfortunately this is ONLY because he's putting up a good fight against the no deal scenario. Although I'm happy to see Corbyn gaining mass support from previously hostile people, it exposes how shallow these people are because they have relentlessly attacked him for talking more about austerity than brexit over the past three years. They're litteraly like spoilt children. Where have you seen this Joe? I'm just seeing stuff like either Johnson is bad, or Corbyn is a coward for not wanting an election... All the Remain stalwarts such as James O'B, Melville, Femi and others, including journalists. People who have constantly attacked him are now tweeting in favour of Corbyn and his strategy. |
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 5, 2019 15:42:33 GMT
What colossal mess. I can't stand any of it as I'm finding it hard to support anyones strategy. Why can't there be an offer of leaving with a deal which includes an expiration for single market access and the customs union? Does that sound reasonable to anyone in here?
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Post by jacko on Sept 5, 2019 17:20:16 GMT
Just like in the run up to the 2017 GE I'm seeing a lot of centrists now hailing Corbyn as "statesman" and other positive things. Unfortunately this is ONLY because he's putting up a good fight against the no deal scenario. Although I'm happy to see Corbyn gaining mass support from previously hostile people, it exposes how shallow these people are because they have relentlessly attacked him for talking more about austerity than brexit over the past three years. They're litteraly like spoilt children. Painting all Corbyn sceptics as "Centrists" is equally childish.
He deserves support for his actions in the last few days - he's done exactly what was required in the best interests of the country. Statesmanlike.
You can praise him for that and simultaneously think that he generally a bit rubbish. Much of the criticism of him comes from people on the left who simply believe that with a different leader a Labour majority government would be more likely and I happen to agree with them.
It's not enough to say "if it weren't for the bastardly right wing press everyone would love him". Every Labour leader has to put up with that. Someone with less baggage and a willingness to go on the front foot is needed.
You're going to ask me for an example - and i will cite Clive Lewis. Watch the Channel 4 debate on Monday - he was articulate, passionate and wiped the floor with everyone else on the stage. And i don't think he can be accused of not being left wing being anti trident & highly critical of British intervention overseas despite being in the services himself. And he backed Corbyn in 2015.
I'm not suggesting a coup - Corbyn will fight the next election and i hope he wins - but a clean skin will be needed at some point very soon
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Brexshit
Sept 5, 2019 18:18:42 GMT
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Post by LKeet6 on Sept 5, 2019 18:18:42 GMT
I've not seen much left wing criticism of Corbyn. I'd be interested to see that...
It's certainly not "childish" to suggest the vast majority of criticism (that isn't right wing) comes from the centre, they're precisely the people who want to see him gone.
Blair was treated great by the press until the last 1-2 years of his time, and when he was criticised then, it wasn't ENOUGH!!
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Post by LKeet6 on Sept 5, 2019 18:30:41 GMT
(I fucking detest rees-mogg; the most hated, for me...)
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