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Post by golferdude on Oct 30, 2020 8:25:34 GMT
Alright so perhaps not the best subject to make my debut on the political thread but I am boiling mad right now.
Glad to be here fellas and looking forward to some respectful discussion. Any disagreements we might have here will remain in the war room with me and there will be no hard feelings, ultimately we are friends regardless of political affiliation and views associated.
Reason I'm ticked is due to a tweet penned by the great Jack Nicklaus. Nicklaus is a class act both on and off the course and is a remarkable Husband, Father, course designer, philanthropist for communities, etc etc etc. Nicklaus tweeted yesterday his admiration, support and ultimate vote in Trump for 2020 election. The reasons he gave in the tweet were very thoughtful, carefully chosen and he even pointed out the fact that him and Trump have butted heads in the past. Nicklaus was not blindly voting for Trump, he pointed out the pros and cons of a Trump Presidency and he ultimately determined Trump was his man.
It's fine and welcomed to disagree with the man, but some of the responses from people were ludicrous, severe and totally uncalled for. Nicklaus, simply exercising his freewill, and first amendment right of free speech was instantly chastised by democrats saying I hope you die a painful long death, or your reputation is now tarnished by me, etc. Since when should someone be reprimanded for simply speaking. Jack did not cause physical abuse on anyone and was simply supporting Trump in an ethical classy way. He didn't criticize those on the left who oppose Trump, but simply stated his case for Trump which is totally the proper way to conduct such an action.
I am well aware that the divide between democrats and republicans has always been tested and strained for hundreds of years, but it seems like in the past 8-10 years its been more so. Since when is politics all or nothing amongst parties? What I mean by all or nothing is being blindly loyal to one party or another without recognizing holes in each candidate. Every candidate has their flaws or if not an obvious flaw have said or done something unmerited and uncalled for. Instead of the party defending his or her every action. The republican party needs to call out Trump on his wrong doing and same for the democrats when one of their politicians is off pudding. Each party would gain more credibility from the opposing party by doing this.
Agreeance of both parties should not be considered weak but as a symbol of unity. because mature sensible human beings should know that teamwork and unity amongst people is the best way to solve and fix issues. Well lord knows 2020 has brought new issues to a head, such as the pandemic, and old issues such as inequality to the surface. Being divided will only escalate the issues further. Even if both parties have a disagreement, each party must learn to put aside differences and meet in the middle by giving and taking not implementing the all or nothing mentality I talked about earlier. Who gives a rat's ass about who's right or wrong meet in the middle and get things done. That's what past politicians did and it made for more success.
Two years ago when Senator Mccain passed away, Joe Biden gave a powerful eulogy about how inside the war room they disagreed, one being republican and other being democrat but when the meetings adjourned and the work ended, they were best pals. They were able to leave their job in the meeting place and go one being mature humans with one another. This is bipartisan old school politics at its finest. Nowadays politicians don't just leave their jobs in the war room, opposing parties take that hostility into their personal lives and both parties will wreak havoc on each other in all walks of life. This goes back to the all or nothing mentality of my party is 100% right 100% of the time and your party is 100% wrong 100% of the time. Again is it so damn hard to meet in the middle?
Hell just last week, when Rush Limbaugh, acclaimed republican journalist and radio show host announced that his cancer had taken a turn for the worst. Instead of a plethora of comments coming in saying that's sad or praying for you rush, many comments were saying good riddance or go to fucking hell. You might disagree with the man politically but everyone's life matters and even if you cannot respect him, at least respect the fact that he is a husband, father, grandfather and friend. All of those people would be deeply devastated by his passing. Politics should not be taken in that vain. Yes its patriotic and appropriate to be passionate about politics, but this is simply taking it too far people. Other than voting for candidiates and a few propositions, everything else is out of the commoners hands. Also, politics is just one facet of life. Loving people and showing respect for a fellow man is just as important if not more important than the person who is in charge in Washington. Afterall, you can control how you love and carry yourself, but you cannot control what transpires in politics other than voting.
Thank you all for letting me vent, and I am looking forward to your thoughts
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Post by cliffs on Oct 30, 2020 11:06:00 GMT
Welcome, I personally, never carry feelings out of a thread but there are a few people in these forums (present and past) that post to do nothing but cause stress. They know who they are so don't ask for names. I'm sure there are some that don't like my attitude towards different subjects but the TGC forums have been a lot nicer place to hang out than HB, PG (Perfect Golf) and one or two others.
On to your post.
Give us 5 redeeming qualities of Donald or for that matter anyone with his last name. Do not ask me to do the same about Biden as I am voting Biden just to rid the world of the worst president in the history of presidencies everywhere.
Do not get me started on your acclaimed republican journalist, that made me spit coffee everywhere.
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Post by karma4u on Oct 30, 2020 22:06:30 GMT
Seriously, you actually have to have a Bachelor's degree to be a journalist. Limbaugh, made it out of High School. Rush is nothing more than a radio host who makes a living stirring up right wing conservatives. On its face there is nothing wrong with that, believe what you want.
That said, while I feel bad for the fact that he has cancer, it in no way changes my personal thoughts of the man.
Both Jack and Brett Favre have stated they are voting for Trump, that's their right. That after all, is what democracy is all about.
When it comes to wishing death to people, it happens on both sides of the spectrum.
There is no one immune to this vitriol, however I would suggest that your President has not helped. JMO............
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Post by Not Trump 2020 on Oct 30, 2020 22:12:40 GMT
Death threats and, to a lesser degree, foul and offensive abuse of a personal nature are (clearly) absolutely absurd, and should be immediately condemned.
It's also worth noting, that with the anonymity of the internet, it's just par for the course (pun intended) these days.
There are zero political or moral reasons to vote for trump. He has CLEARLY been an absolute disaster for America (and the wider world) and is also CLEARLY a terrible person.
Well, maybe there is one reason to vote for him. "I want to pay less taxes, and screw how it affects other people, or the country as a whole." I don't accept that as being a good reason.
I don't know how there could be a "thoughtful" appraisal of trump, short of "biden is worse," which isn't true. (Though he's certainly bad/boring.)
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Post by Golfer dude on Nov 4, 2020 23:03:03 GMT
Welcome, I personally, never carry feelings out of a thread but there are a few people in these forums (present and past) that post to do nothing but cause stress. They know who they are so don't ask for names. I'm sure there are some that don't like my attitude towards different subjects but the TGC forums have been a lot nicer place to hang out than HB, PG (Perfect Golf) and one or two others. On to your post. Give us 5 redeeming qualities of Donald or for that matter anyone with his last name. Do not ask me to do the same about Biden as I am voting Biden just to rid the world of the worst president in the history of presidencies everywhere. Do not get me started on your acclaimed republican journalist, that made me spit coffee everywhere. Cliff 1st off, thanks for the warm welcome, and yes constructive conversation is what I aspire for in life; so this avenue is a good place to be. Let me preface by saying that while I am a republican, I also am bipartisan and am more a voter of the person rather than the party. For example, my 2020 ballot was approximately 70% republican 30% democrat. I am not blindly loyal to the Republican party, and I more vote for the content and classiness that the candidate portrays themselves. 2012 was my first election that I was eligible to vote in, I had just turned 17. That year I voted for Obama because he damn well was brilliant in his first term and I thought he deserved a second term. Obamacare saved my parents ass and because they were saving thousands of dollars annually on healthcare, they were able to per their mortgage. As of three years ago, their house is paid off free and clear. Hell I would have voted for Obama in 2008 as well if I had reached the age threshold. 2016, I voted for Trump simply because I could not trust Hillary Clinton. My reason for not trusting her may or may not have been merited but I felt like Trump was the lesser of two evils and being a Republican was the icing on the cake for me. Keep in mind that I was only 22 and barely out of college so I wasn't mature. Over the past 4 years, I have slowly realized that voting for Trump was a mistake. His mouth had gotten larger and larger, the annoyance factor was huge and his credibility plummeted. That being said, I voted for Joe Biden in 2020. If Biden wins this year, does that me he is my choice in 2024, maybe maybe not, let's see who the republicans put out as their nominee. Point being, I am not in love with Trump. That being said, even on the odd occasion when he is showing respect by offering condolences and a gracious message to someone who has died etc, people will still reply to him saying you were three minutes late or go away orange monster and the like. Two wrongs don't make a right people. Even though 99.9% of the time he is being egregious that .1% of the time he actually is in line, he deserves better. Republicans are no better with democrats, democrats aren't all corrupt and they aren't all snowflakes either, just as many republicans far in those categories as well. Bottom line: people need to hold themselves to a higher standard, and be accountable for failures. Since Trump does fail at these miserably it trickles down to the rest of society, hence the immense division of the past four years. If a President is graceful and classy, that standard trickles down to society. I am still a republican and will always be a republican, but in my mind, content of character overrules content of policy. Meaning if the democrat has a better track record ala Biden or Trump, I am voting for Biden all day, and that I did. |
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Post by Tiny Hands 2020 on Nov 5, 2020 0:09:42 GMT
The above is a great post. I respect it. It's not how I see the world, it's not how I see American politics, but can't be critical of thoughtful honesty like that. I think a lot of Americans vote for the personality, not the policies and, personally, I see that as a big part of the problem. With the trend towards celebrity culture, social media and fake news greatly exacerbating it. You have people standing for the republicans in the house elections who were famous football coaches. And that's a shoo in to win and help trump, and/or hinder biden should he be elected (looks like democrats have lost the chamber.) Voting for someone because they're a football coach or a war vet is a terrible, terrible reason. I thought/think Clinton is absolutely ghastly, terrible person. But I didn't think she was especially untrustworthy. The emails thing was bad, but it was humongously overplayed; it was basically trump's main election strategy, along with building a wall. Right wing/conversative people who say they vote that way because they want to pay less tax, I understand. I disagree with it, I'd maybe go as far as saying I don't respect it, but it's a logical political standpoint, that I understand. Voting should be based on policies. What do you want for you, what do you want for others, what will be for the greater good. Trump's first campaign was a fucking joke, it was clear what he was and who he'd be very early on. His first term has been everything we knew it Would be, but worse. Anyway, if that seems like I've said it's a good post and then contradicted it, I'll repeat it was a really good post!  |
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Post by golfer dude on Nov 5, 2020 0:28:54 GMT
The above is a great post. I respect it. It's not how I see the world, it's not how I see American politics, but can't be critical of thoughtful honesty like that. I think a lot of Americans vote for the personality, not the policies and, personally, I see that as a big part of the problem. With the trend towards celebrity culture, social media and fake news greatly exacerbating it. You have people standing for the republicans in the house elections who were famous football coaches. And that's a shoo in to win and help trump, and/or hinder biden should he be elected (looks like democrats have lost the chamber.) Voting for someone because they're a football coach or a war vet is a terrible, terrible reason. I thought/think Clinton is absolutely ghastly, terrible person. But I didn't think she was especially untrustworthy. The emails thing was bad, but it was humongously overplayed; it was basically trump's main election strategy, along with building a wall. Right wing/conversative people who say they vote that way because they want to pay less tax, I understand. I disagree with it, I'd maybe go as far as saying I don't respect it, but it's a logical political standpoint, that I understand. Voting should be based on policies. What do you want for you, what do you want for others, what will be for the greater good. Trump's first campaign was a fucking joke, it was clear what he was and who he'd be very early on. His first term has been everything we knew it Would be, but worse. Anyway, if that seems like I've said it's a good post and then contradicted it, I'll repeat it was a really good post! Thank you sir! As I've said, my dislike for Hilary may or may not have been merited, but she rubbed me the wrong way. I wanted to give Trump a chance since he was unlike any other candidate ever, but as I said, my choice and trust in him was a total disaster. I had just turned 18 not 17, I am sorry for that grammatical error, but hopefully you all got my drift. I am not going to go into the reasons why I am a right wing republican as I do want to create a lengthy rabbit trail, but I understand why many people are on the left. ANyway, indications look like Biden will be President and I wish him well. Hopefully my vote in him shows well in four years lol |
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Post by Timbro on Nov 5, 2020 21:37:09 GMT
Welcome, I personally, never carry feelings out of a thread but there are a few people in these forums (present and past) that post to do nothing but cause stress. They know who they are so don't ask for names. I'm sure there are some that don't like my attitude towards different subjects but the TGC forums have been a lot nicer place to hang out than HB, PG (Perfect Golf) and one or two others. On to your post. Give us 5 redeeming qualities of Donald or for that matter anyone with his last name. Do not ask me to do the same about Biden as I am voting Biden just to rid the world of the worst president in the history of presidencies everywhere. Do not get me started on your acclaimed republican journalist, that made me spit coffee everywhere. Cliff 1st off, thanks for the warm welcome, and yes constructive conversation is what I aspire for in life; so this avenue is a good place to be. Let me preface by saying that while I am a republican, I also am bipartisan and am more a voter of the person rather than the party. For example, my 2020 ballot was approximately 70% republican 30% democrat. I am not blindly loyal to the Republican party, and I more vote for the content and classiness that the candidate portrays themselves. 2012 was my first election that I was eligible to vote in, I had just turned 17. That year I voted for Obama because he damn well was brilliant in his first term and I thought he deserved a second term. Obamacare saved my parents ass and because they were saving thousands of dollars annually on healthcare, they were able to per their mortgage. As of three years ago, their house is paid off free and clear. Hell I would have voted for Obama in 2008 as well if I had reached the age threshold. 2016, I voted for Trump simply because I could not trust Hillary Clinton. My reason for not trusting her may or may not have been merited but I felt like Trump was the lesser of two evils and being a Republican was the icing on the cake for me. Keep in mind that I was only 22 and barely out of college so I wasn't mature. Over the past 4 years, I have slowly realized that voting for Trump was a mistake. His mouth had gotten larger and larger, the annoyance factor was huge and his credibility plummeted. That being said, I voted for Joe Biden in 2020. If Biden wins this year, does that me he is my choice in 2024, maybe maybe not, let's see who the republicans put out as their nominee. Point being, I am not in love with Trump. That being said, even on the odd occasion when he is showing respect by offering condolences and a gracious message to someone who has died etc, people will still reply to him saying you were three minutes late or go away orange monster and the like. Two wrongs don't make a right people. Even though 99.9% of the time he is being egregious that .1% of the time he actually is in line, he deserves better. Republicans are no better with democrats, democrats aren't all corrupt and they aren't all snowflakes either, just as many republicans far in those categories as well. Bottom line: people need to hold themselves to a higher standard, and be accountable for failures. Since Trump does fail at these miserably it trickles down to the rest of society, hence the immense division of the past four years. If a President is graceful and classy, that standard trickles down to society. I am still a republican and will always be a republican, but in my mind, content of character overrules content of policy. Meaning if the democrat has a better track record ala Biden or Trump, I am voting for Biden all day, and that I did. First off, like others said, huge respect for this post. It is actually such a relief to read it, because it's so easy to be depressed by the prevailing dialogue. Hopefully Democrats can avoid being sore losers (despite the temptation) once this campaign is over. My political views started out quite conservative mostly due to upbringing, but have gotten progressively more liberal as I've gotten older (early 30s now). The only reason I say this is because I don't understand your statement that you "will always be a Republican". I really respect your willingness to put party affiliation aside when voting, but I don't understand the allegiance to one party. Especially considering the people who have been hovering in the orbit of the Republican party over the past few years (Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Steve Bannon, Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnell etc.) are some of the most vile, unethical and flawed characters in politics. If content of character is so important (and I agree 100% on its value), why let party allegiance supersede it? Why not just be independent? I just wanted to say something about Rush Limbaugh if that's ok. I get that he has always been a larger-than-life character and I know how influential he has been on US Conservative society. I'm sure many people are saddened that his days are numbered. That being said, I feel there are people whose actions in life are so anti-social and anti-human, that they forfeit the right to "universal sympathy". Rush has been the voice of racism and misogyny on the radio for decades. Here are some choice Rush Limbaugh quotes. Think about them in the context of how widespread his reach is. And if you still think he is worth sympathy, that's ok. Rush on nicotine: “There is no conclusive proof that nicotine’s addictive... And the same thing with cigarettes causing emphysema, lung cancer, heart disease.” Rush on the genocide of American Indians: “Columbus saved the Indians from themselves.” Rush on African Americans voting: “[African Americans] are twelve percent of the population. Who the hell cares?” Rush on the NFL: “Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it.” Rush on a 13 year old girl: "Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is also a White House dog?” (Rush Limbaugh, while holding up a photograph of 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton) Rush on feminism: "Feminism has led women astray. I love the women’s movement — especially when walking behind it.” Rush on LGBT: “When a gay person turns his back on you, it is anything but an insult; it’s an invitation.” Rush on people in the military who didn't support the Iraq War: "The phony soldiers." Rush on women: "Women still live longer than men because their lives are easier." Rush on women protesting sexual harassment: “They’re out there protesting what they actually wish would happen to them sometimes.” Rush on the homeless population: "Isn't that how the homeless became homeless? They used to be institutionalized and a bunch of liberals came along and said, "They have rights! You can't keep them there"?" Rush on the heterosexuality: "Heterosexuality may be 95, 98 percent of the population. [Heterosexuality is] under assault by the 2 to 5 percent that are homosexual.” Rush on legalizing gay marriage: I simply asked you to think what was your first reaction when you heard first about gay marriage? And I said you’re probably having the same reaction here. And gay marriage is now standard, normal operating procedure. [Pedophilia] could be, too. Rush on Sandra Fluke who testified that women should have access to affordable contraceptives: "It makes her a slut, right? It makes her a prostitute. She wants to be paid to have sex. She's having so much sex she can't afford the contraception. She wants you and me and the taxpayers to pay her to have sex. What does that make us? We're the pimps. (interruption) The johns? We would be the johns? |
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Post by ErixonStone on Nov 6, 2020 3:53:23 GMT
Welcome to the boards, g-dude. I broke up your post because you made a number of points, and I wanted to comment on them separately without quoting over several posts. Let me preface by saying that while I am a republican, I also am bipartisan and am more a voter of the person rather than the party. For example, my 2020 ballot was approximately 70% republican 30% democrat. I am not blindly loyal to the Republican party, and I more vote for the content and classiness that the candidate portrays themselves. 2012 was my first election that I was eligible to vote in, I had just turned [18]. That year I voted for Obama... Good. You should be voting for candidates, and not for parties. Unfortunately, party affiliation is often shorthand for ideology, but there can be huge differences. Take Ilhan Omar and Joe Manchin, for example. They're both Democrats, but they agree on almost nothing. ...because he damn well was brilliant in his first term and I thought he deserved a second term. Obamacare saved my parents ass and because they were saving thousands of dollars annually on healthcare, they were able to per their mortgage. As of three years ago, their house is paid off free and clear. Hell I would have voted for Obama in 2008 as well if I had reached the age threshold. Republicans are trying, as we speak, via the courts, to strike down the entirety of the Affordable Care Act. Biden-style Democrats want to preserve and expand it. Other Democrats want to replace it with a nationalized health insurance plan by expanding the existing socialized health insurance plan, Medicare, to cover everyone. 2016, I voted for Trump simply because I could not trust Hillary Clinton. My reason for not trusting her may or may not have been merited... You should really look into the reasons why people say that Hillary Clinton is not trustworthy. She is attacked by Republicans and left-leaning Democrats alike for her corruption and coziness to big banks. There's a lot not to like, here. I say that you should look into the reasons, though, because it will help you identify politicians that are criticizing in good-faith and others who are making dishonest arguments (some will criticize Clinton for something they are doing, themselves, such as taking money from Wall St.). but I felt like Trump was the lesser of two evils and being a Republican was the icing on the cake for me. Keep in mind that I was only 22 and barely out of college so I wasn't mature. Over the past 4 years, I have slowly realized that voting for Trump was a mistake. His mouth had gotten larger and larger, the annoyance factor was huge and his credibility plummeted. That being said, I voted for Joe Biden in 2020. If Biden wins this year, does that me he is my choice in 2024, maybe maybe not, let's see who the republicans put out as their nominee. If you take away all the bravado, bluster, uncouthness, and outright lying (I know that's hard), do you agree with his pro-corporation governance? What I find about Trump is that he campaigned in 2016 on economic populism, but governed the opposite. Personally, I didn't see how a real estate mogul from New York who had gone bankrupt several times, defrauded students and contractors, and consistently gaslighted could possibly be a champion of the working class. I didn't see how he would "drain the swamp" of corrupted politicians who were beholden to corporations when he is the corporation. Trump's 2016 message was a winner, but I just didn't believe he would follow through. Point being, I am not in love with Trump. That being said, even on the odd occasion when he is showing respect by offering condolences and a gracious message to someone who has died etc, people will still reply to him saying you were three minutes late or go away orange monster and the like. Two wrongs don't make a right people. Even though 99.9% of the time he is being egregious that .1% of the time he actually is in line, he deserves better. When Trump does something I agree with, usually, it comes off as pandering just so he can claim something later. That's cynical, I know, but I just cannot give Trump the benefit of the doubt on these things. There are, however, a few things he's done that I agree with. Republicans are no better with democrats, democrats aren't all corrupt and they aren't all snowflakes either, just as many republicans far in those categories as well. Bottom line: people need to hold themselves to a higher standard, and be accountable for failures. Since Trump does fail at these miserably it trickles down to the rest of society, hence the immense division of the past four years. If a President is graceful and classy, that standard trickles down to society. I don't know if that's true, considering we lived through 8 years of Obama. Handled the position with grace (I hate his economic policy), and the nation became more divided. I think the divisiveness is more correlated with income inequality which has been growing since the 80s. I am still a republican and will always be a republican Please be open-minded to switching parties. Have a set of criteria that would cause you to change. I am a registered Democrat. However, that does not mean that I will always be a registered Democrat forever. I have some conditions that will cause me to change. I'm open to it, even if I think it's unlikely. but in my mind, content of character overrules content of policy. Meaning if the democrat has a better track record ala Biden or Trump, I am voting for Biden all day, and that I did. I feel the exact opposite. A politician's demeanor and grace do not impact my life. I find Mitt Romney to have a much better demeanor than, say, Bernie Sanders. I don't care about it; I care about policy. If Donald Trump told me I was a disgusting piece of shit, but increased wages, decreased incarceration rates, implemented tuition-free state college or trade school, and free-at-the-point-of-service national health insurance, I would vote for him and wave his damn flags. Instead, he tried to revoke the ACA and his signature legislation was a huge tax cut to corporations, hollowing out the social safety net. |
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Post by cliffs on Nov 6, 2020 11:33:08 GMT
The Russians have no need to spread misinformation. Trump and his allies are doing it for them
“Nothing that Russia or Iran or China could say is anywhere near as wild as what the president is saying,” said a former FBI agent who tracks foreign disinformation.
'This is getting insane': Republicans push back against Trump's false election claims
Rep. Will Hurd of Texas tweeted that Trump's comments are "not only dangerous & wrong, it undermines the very foundation this nation was built upon."
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